<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Trendline Fitting Errors</title>
	<atom:link href="http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/trendline-fitting-errors/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/trendline-fitting-errors/</link>
	<description>PTS Excel Charts and Tutorials Blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:01:08 -0600</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<xhtml:meta xmlns:xhtml="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" name="robots" content="noindex" />
	<item>
		<title>By: Jon Peltier</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/trendline-fitting-errors/comment-page-1/#comment-15589</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Peltier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:45:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=364#comment-15589</guid>
		<description>Hi Bas -

In my understanding, Excel 2003 had finally worked out most of the statistics bugs. For years, the trendline formula was (believe it or not) considered a world-class techniue for calculating poly fits, but 2003 finally brought this capability to the worksheet functions.

Excel 2007 broke the trendline formula for many cases, inappropriately changing coefficients within a certain range to zero due to an overzealous rounding error correction algorithm. SP1 made a few improvements, SP2 has made more. We all hope and wish that Excel 2010 will clean up all of the problems (and not just with statistics!).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bas -</p>
<p>In my understanding, Excel 2003 had finally worked out most of the statistics bugs. For years, the trendline formula was (believe it or not) considered a world-class techniue for calculating poly fits, but 2003 finally brought this capability to the worksheet functions.</p>
<p>Excel 2007 broke the trendline formula for many cases, inappropriately changing coefficients within a certain range to zero due to an overzealous rounding error correction algorithm. SP1 made a few improvements, SP2 has made more. We all hope and wish that Excel 2010 will clean up all of the problems (and not just with statistics!).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bas V</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/trendline-fitting-errors/comment-page-1/#comment-15576</link>
		<dc:creator>Bas V</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 23:44:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=364#comment-15576</guid>
		<description>One of my associates has found an instance of Excel 2007 SP1 displaying incorrect fit coefficients for a third order polynomial fit with a forced zero intercept.  The value of the bad third order coefficient was not real small (same order as the other two) Moreover, the bad coefficient would not display at all in SP1 version once the document was saved and reopened.   The problem went away with an update to SP2.  SP1 users beware!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of my associates has found an instance of Excel 2007 SP1 displaying incorrect fit coefficients for a third order polynomial fit with a forced zero intercept.  The value of the bad third order coefficient was not real small (same order as the other two) Moreover, the bad coefficient would not display at all in SP1 version once the document was saved and reopened.   The problem went away with an update to SP2.  SP1 users beware!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jon Peltier</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/trendline-fitting-errors/comment-page-1/#comment-3856</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Peltier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:03:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=364#comment-3856</guid>
		<description>Adam -

You didn&#039;t include your trendline, so I can&#039;t comment directly. When I plot your data in Excel 2003, I get this closely fitting trendline:

y = -746.65x3 - 317.45x2 - 3.2524x + 273.16
R² = 0.9996

I have heard of problems with the trendline formula in Excel 2007 with some data sets.  I repeated this in Excel 2007, and got this trendline:

y = -746.65x3 - 317.45x2 - 3.2524x + 273.16
R² = 0.9996

Exactly the same. What&#039;s more, the LINEST results below agree with the trendline:

&lt;p align=&quot;center&quot;&gt;&lt;img title=&quot;linest data&quot; src=&quot;http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200809/adamlinest.png&quot; alt=&quot;linest data&quot;&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

Here is the data and calculated Y values based on the LINEST coefficients:

&lt;p align=&quot;center&quot;&gt;&lt;img title=&quot;trendline data&quot; src=&quot;http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200809/adamdata.png&quot; alt=&quot;trendline data&quot;&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

Here is the chart with the trendline:

&lt;p align=&quot;center&quot;&gt;&lt;img title=&quot;trendline plot&quot; src=&quot;http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200809/adamxytrend.png&quot; alt=&quot;trendline plot&quot;&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

Here is the chart with the original data and the LINEST-fitted data:

&lt;p align=&quot;center&quot;&gt;&lt;img title=&quot;trendline plot&quot; src=&quot;http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200809/adamxyfitted.png&quot; alt=&quot;trendline plot&quot;&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

On the off chance that the chart type was incorrect, I converted the chart to a line chart. This changes the nature of the curve from concave downward, like half of a parabola, to a sigmoidal curve, and the trendline doesn&#039;t really fit:

y = 0.0847x3 - 1.1768x2 + 3.2385x + 270.87
R² = 0.9932

Here&#039;s the line chart, which obviously looks amiss:

&lt;p align=&quot;center&quot;&gt;&lt;img title=&quot;trendline plot&quot; src=&quot;http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200809/adamlinetrend.png&quot; alt=&quot;trendline plot&quot;&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam -</p>
<p>You didn&#8217;t include your trendline, so I can&#8217;t comment directly. When I plot your data in Excel 2003, I get this closely fitting trendline:</p>
<p>y = -746.65&#215;3 &#8211; 317.45&#215;2 &#8211; 3.2524x + 273.16<br />
R² = 0.9996</p>
<p>I have heard of problems with the trendline formula in Excel 2007 with some data sets.  I repeated this in Excel 2007, and got this trendline:</p>
<p>y = -746.65&#215;3 &#8211; 317.45&#215;2 &#8211; 3.2524x + 273.16<br />
R² = 0.9996</p>
<p>Exactly the same. What&#8217;s more, the LINEST results below agree with the trendline:</p>
<p align="center"><img title="linest data" src="http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200809/adamlinest.png" alt="linest data"/></p>
<p>Here is the data and calculated Y values based on the LINEST coefficients:</p>
<p align="center"><img title="trendline data" src="http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200809/adamdata.png" alt="trendline data"/></p>
<p>Here is the chart with the trendline:</p>
<p align="center"><img title="trendline plot" src="http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200809/adamxytrend.png" alt="trendline plot"/></p>
<p>Here is the chart with the original data and the LINEST-fitted data:</p>
<p align="center"><img title="trendline plot" src="http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200809/adamxyfitted.png" alt="trendline plot"/></p>
<p>On the off chance that the chart type was incorrect, I converted the chart to a line chart. This changes the nature of the curve from concave downward, like half of a parabola, to a sigmoidal curve, and the trendline doesn&#8217;t really fit:</p>
<p>y = 0.0847&#215;3 &#8211; 1.1768&#215;2 + 3.2385x + 270.87<br />
R² = 0.9932</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the line chart, which obviously looks amiss:</p>
<p align="center"><img title="trendline plot" src="http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200809/adamlinetrend.png" alt="trendline plot"/></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: adam higgins</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/trendline-fitting-errors/comment-page-1/#comment-3849</link>
		<dc:creator>adam higgins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 19:20:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=364#comment-3849</guid>
		<description>Interesting post, but unfortunately it didn&#039;t give the answer I was looking for.  I&#039;m fitting a 3rd order polynomial &quot;trendline&quot; to data.  The trendline displayed on the plot looks good and even looks reasonable when extrapolated (to a point).  However, the equation displayed on the chart does not appear to match the data (at all!).  It is not because of a lack of significant digits in the coefficients.  It appears that excel has displayed the wrong coefficients on the chart.  My data is below:

0	273.15
0.019477851	273
0.043981716	272.3
0.074296729	270.9
0.109878671	267.9
0.127178507	266.2
0.135243092	265

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Adam</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post, but unfortunately it didn&#8217;t give the answer I was looking for.  I&#8217;m fitting a 3rd order polynomial &#8220;trendline&#8221; to data.  The trendline displayed on the plot looks good and even looks reasonable when extrapolated (to a point).  However, the equation displayed on the chart does not appear to match the data (at all!).  It is not because of a lack of significant digits in the coefficients.  It appears that excel has displayed the wrong coefficients on the chart.  My data is below:</p>
<p>0	273.15<br />
0.019477851	273<br />
0.043981716	272.3<br />
0.074296729	270.9<br />
0.109878671	267.9<br />
0.127178507	266.2<br />
0.135243092	265</p>
<p>Any suggestions would be appreciated.</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>Adam</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Mansfield</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/trendline-fitting-errors/comment-page-1/#comment-3756</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mansfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 10:09:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=364#comment-3756</guid>
		<description>Jon - thanks for the great post.  I&#039;ve known of the problem via the MS charting forum but never really understood it until now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon &#8211; thanks for the great post.  I&#8217;ve known of the problem via the MS charting forum but never really understood it until now.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jon Peltier</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/trendline-fitting-errors/comment-page-1/#comment-3567</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Peltier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 00:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=364#comment-3567</guid>
		<description>Thanks for sharing that story, Jennifer.

I once worked for a guy who didn&#039;t understand this whole concept. We&#039;d be talking for an hour about how we were going to process this lot of material, and I&#039;d show test data that he didn&#039;t follow. Finally, he&#039;d ask me (yet again), &quot;What&#039;s the definition of Standard Deviation&quot;? He was the Director of Engineering, but we all called him Duh-rector.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for sharing that story, Jennifer.</p>
<p>I once worked for a guy who didn&#8217;t understand this whole concept. We&#8217;d be talking for an hour about how we were going to process this lot of material, and I&#8217;d show test data that he didn&#8217;t follow. Finally, he&#8217;d ask me (yet again), &#8220;What&#8217;s the definition of Standard Deviation&#8221;? He was the Director of Engineering, but we all called him Duh-rector.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/trendline-fitting-errors/comment-page-1/#comment-3559</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 22:23:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=364#comment-3559</guid>
		<description>Love your site and your blog, Jon.

I want to share a little bug-a-boo that I have with Excel trendlines.

I am a quantitative researcher with 15-years of experience using SAS as a statistical programming language -- and have recently moved from investment banking to a small startup.

People here at my new job use Excel to place trendlines on graphs and refer to the trends --- with no exploration into whether the coefficient on the slope of the line is significant!

I was in an internal meeting once where a long, painful discussion took place to figure out how best to explain the unexpected negative slope of a trendline on an Excel graph to a client.   I finally asked whether the negative slope was actually *that* important --- thinking about whether it was strongly significant or just borderline.  

Turns out -- no-one had checked the significance of that coeffcient at all.  

When they did,  it was really FAR from being significant.  In other words --- even though there seemed to be a negative slope when you eyeballed the data --- mathematically (with the amount of data and the amount of noise in the data) we could not say with confidence that the slope wasn&#039;t zero.  In actuality, we should be telling the client that there is no trend.  That the data is constant over time.

This was a rude awakening to some people at my work and I just wanted pass along the joy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love your site and your blog, Jon.</p>
<p>I want to share a little bug-a-boo that I have with Excel trendlines.</p>
<p>I am a quantitative researcher with 15-years of experience using SAS as a statistical programming language &#8212; and have recently moved from investment banking to a small startup.</p>
<p>People here at my new job use Excel to place trendlines on graphs and refer to the trends &#8212; with no exploration into whether the coefficient on the slope of the line is significant!</p>
<p>I was in an internal meeting once where a long, painful discussion took place to figure out how best to explain the unexpected negative slope of a trendline on an Excel graph to a client.   I finally asked whether the negative slope was actually *that* important &#8212; thinking about whether it was strongly significant or just borderline.  </p>
<p>Turns out &#8212; no-one had checked the significance of that coeffcient at all.  </p>
<p>When they did,  it was really FAR from being significant.  In other words &#8212; even though there seemed to be a negative slope when you eyeballed the data &#8212; mathematically (with the amount of data and the amount of noise in the data) we could not say with confidence that the slope wasn&#8217;t zero.  In actuality, we should be telling the client that there is no trend.  That the data is constant over time.</p>
<p>This was a rude awakening to some people at my work and I just wanted pass along the joy!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
