<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Reforming a Health Care Reform Chart</title>
	<atom:link href="http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/reforming-a-health-care-reform-chart/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/reforming-a-health-care-reform-chart/</link>
	<description>Peltier Tech Excel Charts and Programming Blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 07:51:10 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2</generator>
<xhtml:meta xmlns:xhtml="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" name="robots" content="noindex" />
	<item>
		<title>By: DaleW</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/reforming-a-health-care-reform-chart/comment-page-1/#comment-27990</link>
		<dc:creator>DaleW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 04:56:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=3105#comment-27990</guid>
		<description>Jeff,

Visionary sf author Robert Heinlein helped popularize TANSTAAFL.  Nowadays, economists may be more likely to use the acronym NFL.

Entitlement programs are subject to this No Free Lunch principle, as they may have huge direct and hidden costs.  If we&#039;re going to chart the benefits of a proposed new entitlement program, should we not also chart the likely costs?  

As a start towards fairness [which I try to maintain even towards humble pie charts] it seems these health cost charts should clearly communicate to the reader that if the typical family of four would contribute roughly $1K to $9K of the costs depending on income, the tax-payer would be responsible for all the remainder of this $9K cost per typical family enrolled.   Then we might consider the impact of such additional unfunded public liabilities in light of the current official US Federal debt of about 87% of annual GDP, and the annual deficit around 10% of GDP, as the Federal Government is spending 166% or so of its total projected tax revenues for the current fiscal year.  Perhaps there are more cost effective alternatives?

It seems to me that the rapidly changing huge $ numbers at sites like usdebtclock.org become slightly distracting if one really tries to grok the data.  Perhaps you or Jon would care to try to effectively chart the big picture of US public spending versus revenue and accumulated debt from such numbers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff,</p>
<p>Visionary sf author Robert Heinlein helped popularize TANSTAAFL.  Nowadays, economists may be more likely to use the acronym NFL.</p>
<p>Entitlement programs are subject to this No Free Lunch principle, as they may have huge direct and hidden costs.  If we&#8217;re going to chart the benefits of a proposed new entitlement program, should we not also chart the likely costs?  </p>
<p>As a start towards fairness [which I try to maintain even towards humble pie charts] it seems these health cost charts should clearly communicate to the reader that if the typical family of four would contribute roughly $1K to $9K of the costs depending on income, the tax-payer would be responsible for all the remainder of this $9K cost per typical family enrolled.   Then we might consider the impact of such additional unfunded public liabilities in light of the current official US Federal debt of about 87% of annual GDP, and the annual deficit around 10% of GDP, as the Federal Government is spending 166% or so of its total projected tax revenues for the current fiscal year.  Perhaps there are more cost effective alternatives?</p>
<p>It seems to me that the rapidly changing huge $ numbers at sites like usdebtclock.org become slightly distracting if one really tries to grok the data.  Perhaps you or Jon would care to try to effectively chart the big picture of US public spending versus revenue and accumulated debt from such numbers?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jeff Weir</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/reforming-a-health-care-reform-chart/comment-page-1/#comment-27877</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Weir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 06:26:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=3105#comment-27877</guid>
		<description>TANSTAAFL? 

Very good commentry, Dale...critiquing how data could be better presented is one thing, critiquing &lt;i&gt;what&lt;/i&gt; data should be presented is another.

 Glad you hated the pie charts!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TANSTAAFL? </p>
<p>Very good commentry, Dale&#8230;critiquing how data could be better presented is one thing, critiquing <i>what</i> data should be presented is another.</p>
<p> Glad you hated the pie charts!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DaleW</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/reforming-a-health-care-reform-chart/comment-page-1/#comment-27871</link>
		<dc:creator>DaleW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 04:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=3105#comment-27871</guid>
		<description>Sometimes charts hide more than they show.  We&#039;d all probably agree that it&#039;s not enough to make good charts, one also must chart the right things.  Well, any of these charts* encourage the illusion that average family of four health care costs will be reduced to circa $5K by these reforms.

TANSTAAFL.  

The bigger story here is the unplotted subsidy.  These reform plans all mandate comparably massive subsidies to shift health care costs over to taxpayers in the future.  The US allegedly has the most overpriced health care system in the world now, and such subsidies would ensure fuller participation by more Americans in this overpriced system at future taxpayer expense, with no incentives for individuals to hold down costs.   It&#039;s one thing to plan a better social safety net, or even to face the tough rationing decisions that sustainable socialized medicine requires, but another to try to socialize runaway expenses by sleigh of hand so somebody else pays later.

The alarming Greek budget deficit was running at 13% of GDP.  In the US, ours currently adds &quot;only&quot; about 10% of our GDP onto our public debt each year.   Greece passed an austerity budget, at least.  The US Congress seems still focused on additional spending plans.  Taxes don&#039;t come close to covering US government spending now or in the foreseeable future after the economy improves.  Not even Uncle Sam can charge things forever without catching up on the tab.



*Except for Jeff&#039;s pie charts:   more than usual, these pie charts are just wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes charts hide more than they show.  We&#8217;d all probably agree that it&#8217;s not enough to make good charts, one also must chart the right things.  Well, any of these charts* encourage the illusion that average family of four health care costs will be reduced to circa $5K by these reforms.</p>
<p>TANSTAAFL.  </p>
<p>The bigger story here is the unplotted subsidy.  These reform plans all mandate comparably massive subsidies to shift health care costs over to taxpayers in the future.  The US allegedly has the most overpriced health care system in the world now, and such subsidies would ensure fuller participation by more Americans in this overpriced system at future taxpayer expense, with no incentives for individuals to hold down costs.   It&#8217;s one thing to plan a better social safety net, or even to face the tough rationing decisions that sustainable socialized medicine requires, but another to try to socialize runaway expenses by sleigh of hand so somebody else pays later.</p>
<p>The alarming Greek budget deficit was running at 13% of GDP.  In the US, ours currently adds &#8220;only&#8221; about 10% of our GDP onto our public debt each year.   Greece passed an austerity budget, at least.  The US Congress seems still focused on additional spending plans.  Taxes don&#8217;t come close to covering US government spending now or in the foreseeable future after the economy improves.  Not even Uncle Sam can charge things forever without catching up on the tab.</p>
<p>*Except for Jeff&#8217;s pie charts:   more than usual, these pie charts are just wrong.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jeff Weir</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/reforming-a-health-care-reform-chart/comment-page-1/#comment-27854</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Weir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 19:55:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=3105#comment-27854</guid>
		<description>Greg: you&#039;re right. Must have been that 2nd glass of vino blocking my Tufte neural pathways!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg: you&#8217;re right. Must have been that 2nd glass of vino blocking my Tufte neural pathways!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: greg</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/reforming-a-health-care-reform-chart/comment-page-1/#comment-27850</link>
		<dc:creator>greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 19:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=3105#comment-27850</guid>
		<description>John,
Nice job with your charts.  As I read the comment and example from Jeff (nice job!) I felt that Jeff&#039;s approach simply brought me information.  Nothing more.  Your chart showed the inflection occurring at 66k for the senate and executive bill but not for the house bill.  Also from your chart the house bill showed that the cost at the lower income levels was lower from 34k to 44k.   I can see how the payment burden changes based on salary level.
From your type of presentation I could look up my salary and predict my payment.  However,  Jeff&#039;s presentation was appropriate for the data and the only way your presentation of the data would be appropriate (and would truly allow me to lookup my salary and potential cost) is if the 34k, 44k, 66k and 88k were the exact dollar amounts for each three bills where the payment/income formula changes.   If the break point for the formula change was at 50k, then drawing a line between 44k and 66k misrepresents the data.
And Jeff, with your last couple of bar charts, do you even need the y-axis anymore?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,<br />
Nice job with your charts.  As I read the comment and example from Jeff (nice job!) I felt that Jeff&#8217;s approach simply brought me information.  Nothing more.  Your chart showed the inflection occurring at 66k for the senate and executive bill but not for the house bill.  Also from your chart the house bill showed that the cost at the lower income levels was lower from 34k to 44k.   I can see how the payment burden changes based on salary level.<br />
From your type of presentation I could look up my salary and predict my payment.  However,  Jeff&#8217;s presentation was appropriate for the data and the only way your presentation of the data would be appropriate (and would truly allow me to lookup my salary and potential cost) is if the 34k, 44k, 66k and 88k were the exact dollar amounts for each three bills where the payment/income formula changes.   If the break point for the formula change was at 50k, then drawing a line between 44k and 66k misrepresents the data.<br />
And Jeff, with your last couple of bar charts, do you even need the y-axis anymore?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jeff Weir</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/reforming-a-health-care-reform-chart/comment-page-1/#comment-27763</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Weir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 18:17:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=3105#comment-27763</guid>
		<description>Damn, you&#039;re right. Why didn&#039;t I think of scaling the pie charts? Mind you, with that suggestion, it almost seems like you&#039;d decideded to join &#039;em, cause you couldn&#039;t beat &#039;em.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn, you&#8217;re right. Why didn&#8217;t I think of scaling the pie charts? Mind you, with that suggestion, it almost seems like you&#8217;d decideded to join &#8216;em, cause you couldn&#8217;t beat &#8216;em.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

