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	<title>Comments on: Logarithmic Axis Scales</title>
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	<description>Peltier Tech Excel Charts and Programming Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Mario Marinato</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/logarithmic-axis-scales/comment-page-1/#comment-12305</link>
		<dc:creator>Mario Marinato</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=523#comment-12305</guid>
		<description>Jon,

Thank you very much for you posting.  I&#039;m working on a open source software that plots financial graphs but it had a broken log-scale-plotting-function which I had to fix.  After a few days of some misleading readings I discovered your explanation and it gave me the clues I needed to solve the problem.

Your writing is really clear.  Congrats!

Again, thank you very much.

Mario Marinato, from Brazil</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon,</p>
<p>Thank you very much for you posting.  I&#8217;m working on a open source software that plots financial graphs but it had a broken log-scale-plotting-function which I had to fix.  After a few days of some misleading readings I discovered your explanation and it gave me the clues I needed to solve the problem.</p>
<p>Your writing is really clear.  Congrats!</p>
<p>Again, thank you very much.</p>
<p>Mario Marinato, from Brazil</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Peltier</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/logarithmic-axis-scales/comment-page-1/#comment-7174</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Peltier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 13:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=523#comment-7174</guid>
		<description>Siren -

The nature of logarithms is that you can only convert positive numbers to logs, with the resulting logs covering the range of ± infinity.

You can always fake it. I have a number of samples on my main site that show various &lt;a href=&quot;http://peltiertech.com/Excel/Charts/ChartIndex.html#AxisScales&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Custom Axis Scales using Dummy Series&lt;/a&gt;. Most involve adding a helper (or &quot;dummy&quot;) XY series to create the axis, then transforming the data to accommodate this dummy scale

You would have to decide where your line of symmetry would be. For example, you could have the positive values go 1, 10, 100, etc, and the negatives go -1, -10, -100, etc, with +1 and -1 occurring at the same point. To get your negative values to plot, you need to transform them using something like -log(-value).

Alternatively, you could select a ± range that will be linear in the middle, with log values extending outward from this range. So the scale would go
-100, -10, -1, 0 ,1 , 10, 100, etc., with the data plotted linearly between -1 and +1.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Siren -</p>
<p>The nature of logarithms is that you can only convert positive numbers to logs, with the resulting logs covering the range of ± infinity.</p>
<p>You can always fake it. I have a number of samples on my main site that show various <a href="http://peltiertech.com/Excel/Charts/ChartIndex.html#AxisScales" rel="nofollow">Custom Axis Scales using Dummy Series</a>. Most involve adding a helper (or &#8220;dummy&#8221;) XY series to create the axis, then transforming the data to accommodate this dummy scale</p>
<p>You would have to decide where your line of symmetry would be. For example, you could have the positive values go 1, 10, 100, etc, and the negatives go -1, -10, -100, etc, with +1 and -1 occurring at the same point. To get your negative values to plot, you need to transform them using something like -log(-value).</p>
<p>Alternatively, you could select a ± range that will be linear in the middle, with log values extending outward from this range. So the scale would go<br />
-100, -10, -1, 0 ,1 , 10, 100, etc., with the data plotted linearly between -1 and +1.</p>
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		<title>By: Siren</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/logarithmic-axis-scales/comment-page-1/#comment-7151</link>
		<dc:creator>Siren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 05:48:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=523#comment-7151</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been trying for some time now to find a way to use a log-like axis scale that includes negative values.

Basically what I&#039;m looking for is:

Tick marks, each an inch apart, on the positive Y axis, labeled: 10, 100, 1000, 10000, ...
Tick marks, each an inch apart, on the negative Y axis, labeled: -10, -100, -1000, -10000, ...

It just seems wrong that I&#039;m allowed to scale positive values but not negative ones.  Can you help?  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been trying for some time now to find a way to use a log-like axis scale that includes negative values.</p>
<p>Basically what I&#8217;m looking for is:</p>
<p>Tick marks, each an inch apart, on the positive Y axis, labeled: 10, 100, 1000, 10000, &#8230;<br />
Tick marks, each an inch apart, on the negative Y axis, labeled: -10, -100, -1000, -10000, &#8230;</p>
<p>It just seems wrong that I&#8217;m allowed to scale positive values but not negative ones.  Can you help?  :)</p>
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		<title>By: Reader Poll: Should the axis for bar charts always start at zero? &#124; Pointy Haired Dilbert - Chandoo.org</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/logarithmic-axis-scales/comment-page-1/#comment-5431</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader Poll: Should the axis for bar charts always start at zero? &#124; Pointy Haired Dilbert - Chandoo.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 13:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=523#comment-5431</guid>
		<description>[...] range, creating dramatic effect could be difficult. Axis adjustments can help (you may want to try logarithmic axis scale as [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] range, creating dramatic effect could be difficult. Axis adjustments can help (you may want to try logarithmic axis scale as [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Weekly Excel Links - Moved to Seattle Edition &#124; Pointy Haired Dilbert - Chandoo.org</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/logarithmic-axis-scales/comment-page-1/#comment-4168</link>
		<dc:creator>Weekly Excel Links - Moved to Seattle Edition &#124; Pointy Haired Dilbert - Chandoo.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:31:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=523#comment-4168</guid>
		<description>[...] Using Logarithmic Scale on your Chart Axis, excel chart axis options are pretty comprehensive. Jon points us to the logarithmic scale feature that can be very handy if you are depicting data that has exponential behavior and you want to remove that effect on the chart. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Using Logarithmic Scale on your Chart Axis, excel chart axis options are pretty comprehensive. Jon points us to the logarithmic scale feature that can be very handy if you are depicting data that has exponential behavior and you want to remove that effect on the chart. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Peltier</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/logarithmic-axis-scales/comment-page-1/#comment-4071</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Peltier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 03:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=523#comment-4071</guid>
		<description>I followed up on Sjoerd&#039;s comment, and replotted the data. I have to admit it&#039;s much less interesting now, on either a linear or a log axis scale. As Sjoerd says, electricity is the highest price option, and the headline about the heating oil is irrelevant.
&lt;p align=&quot;center&quot;&gt;&lt;img title=&quot;corrected linear home heating chart&quot; src=&quot;http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200809/fuellinearA.png&quot; alt=&quot;corrected linear home heating chart&quot;&gt; &lt;img title=&quot;corrected log home heating chart&quot; src=&quot;http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200809/fuellogA.png&quot; alt=&quot;corrected log home heating chart&quot;&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I followed up on Sjoerd&#8217;s comment, and replotted the data. I have to admit it&#8217;s much less interesting now, on either a linear or a log axis scale. As Sjoerd says, electricity is the highest price option, and the headline about the heating oil is irrelevant.</p>
<p align="center"><img title="corrected linear home heating chart" src="http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200809/fuellinearA.png" alt="corrected linear home heating chart"/> <img title="corrected log home heating chart" src="http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200809/fuellogA.png" alt="corrected log home heating chart"/></p>
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		<title>By: Jon Peltier</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/logarithmic-axis-scales/comment-page-1/#comment-4002</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Peltier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:42:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Sjoerd -

This is a good point. I noticed the difference in units, but your conversion into similar units tells an even harsher tale of deception. Have you chared this with Nicolas?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sjoerd -</p>
<p>This is a good point. I noticed the difference in units, but your conversion into similar units tells an even harsher tale of deception. Have you chared this with Nicolas?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Sjoerd Hoogwater</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/logarithmic-axis-scales/comment-page-1/#comment-4001</link>
		<dc:creator>Sjoerd Hoogwater</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=523#comment-4001</guid>
		<description>Excellent post. It would be even more useful if the data were all in the same units (i.e. cents per kWh) so that we can choose the most economic option.
Using a typical heating value, 1 euro/100 liters fuel oil converts to 0.092 cents/kWh. So, 26.38 euro/100l = 2.43 cents/kWh and 58.63 euro/100l = 5.39 cents/kWh. This lands fuel oil just below natural gas. However, it is somewhat less attractive because it doesn&#039;t burn as efficiently, and not as clean. 
Electricity is clearly the least attractive option.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post. It would be even more useful if the data were all in the same units (i.e. cents per kWh) so that we can choose the most economic option.<br />
Using a typical heating value, 1 euro/100 liters fuel oil converts to 0.092 cents/kWh. So, 26.38 euro/100l = 2.43 cents/kWh and 58.63 euro/100l = 5.39 cents/kWh. This lands fuel oil just below natural gas. However, it is somewhat less attractive because it doesn&#8217;t burn as efficiently, and not as clean.<br />
Electricity is clearly the least attractive option.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Peltier</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/logarithmic-axis-scales/comment-page-1/#comment-3999</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Peltier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:50:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=523#comment-3999</guid>
		<description>Harry - Cells A10:A16 are not involved in the time series. They contain the year 1990 (good catch) and provide the same X value for each of the cells in the added series, which has points along the left hand vertical axis.

Anon - In this case, the values were determined &quot;by inspection&quot;. I had made one or two preliminary charts, which led me to decide these values would work well. Originally I was thinking 2-5-10-20-50-100, but I adjusted as I went along.

In some professional applications, I&#039;ve used algorithms to determine these values. Depending on the spacing and the relevant endpoints, I might choose between 1-5-10, 1-25-50-75-100, 1-20-40-80-100, etc., for the general spacing, and use another algorithm to choose where precisely to start and end.

I have a standard protocol I use for linear axes, which has evolved from a VBA technique of &lt;a href=&quot;http://oaltd.co.uk/Excel/Default.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Stephen Bullen&lt;/a&gt;&#039;s. I have developed both worksheet function and VBA versions. Stephen has posted his protocol in the newsgroups, but it&#039;s also available in chapter 15 of &lt;a name=&quot;evtst&#124;a&#124;B001E0MXXC&quot; href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Professional-Excel-Development-Stephen-Bullen/dp/B001E0MXXC%3FSubscriptionId%3D02E5W5871AJF7PMMMS82%26tag%3Dws%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB001E0MXXC&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Professional Excel Development&lt;/a&gt;, under &quot;Function to Calculate Reasonable Chart Axes Scales&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harry &#8211; Cells A10:A16 are not involved in the time series. They contain the year 1990 (good catch) and provide the same X value for each of the cells in the added series, which has points along the left hand vertical axis.</p>
<p>Anon &#8211; In this case, the values were determined &#8220;by inspection&#8221;. I had made one or two preliminary charts, which led me to decide these values would work well. Originally I was thinking 2-5-10-20-50-100, but I adjusted as I went along.</p>
<p>In some professional applications, I&#8217;ve used algorithms to determine these values. Depending on the spacing and the relevant endpoints, I might choose between 1-5-10, 1-25-50-75-100, 1-20-40-80-100, etc., for the general spacing, and use another algorithm to choose where precisely to start and end.</p>
<p>I have a standard protocol I use for linear axes, which has evolved from a VBA technique of <a href="http://oaltd.co.uk/Excel/Default.htm" rel="nofollow">Stephen Bullen</a>&#8217;s. I have developed both worksheet function and VBA versions. Stephen has posted his protocol in the newsgroups, but it&#8217;s also available in chapter 15 of <a name="evtst|a|B001E0MXXC" href="http://www.amazon.com/Professional-Excel-Development-Stephen-Bullen/dp/B001E0MXXC%3FSubscriptionId%3D02E5W5871AJF7PMMMS82%26tag%3Dws%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB001E0MXXC" rel="nofollow">Professional Excel Development</a>, under &#8220;Function to Calculate Reasonable Chart Axes Scales&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/logarithmic-axis-scales/comment-page-1/#comment-3996</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:27:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=523#comment-3996</guid>
		<description>What method did you use to come up with C10:C16?  Was it guess and check, or did you have a mathematical formula to calculate the &quot;good&quot; tick labels?  You&#039;ve used Log through several posts now (such as the simple physics problem), do you think you could do a post explaining why logs are so useful, highlighting some of the mathematical reasoning behind Logs... explaining their interpretation?

EXCELlent post... as always.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What method did you use to come up with C10:C16?  Was it guess and check, or did you have a mathematical formula to calculate the &#8220;good&#8221; tick labels?  You&#8217;ve used Log through several posts now (such as the simple physics problem), do you think you could do a post explaining why logs are so useful, highlighting some of the mathematical reasoning behind Logs&#8230; explaining their interpretation?</p>
<p>EXCELlent post&#8230; as always.</p>
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