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	<title>Comments on: Leave the Donuts for the Cops, and Stick with the Bars</title>
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	<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/leave-the-donuts-for-the-cops-and-stick-with-the-bars/</link>
	<description>Peltier Tech Excel Charts and Programming Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Dan Predovich CFA</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/leave-the-donuts-for-the-cops-and-stick-with-the-bars/comment-page-1/#comment-18612</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Predovich CFA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 04:53:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=1063#comment-18612</guid>
		<description>Jon, We spnd a huge amount of time working with non-technical decision makers. The single worse metaphor to convey any degree of complexity is the donut chart. I comment on this only because (a) I used to beat my head against terminal trying to make donut charts work; (b) I have huge respect for the work done at THE ECONOMIST (magazine) RESEARCH UNIT, but for the life of me I can not understand their ADDICTION to donut charts. Another analyst I respect but for their over use of Donut Charts is the Bank of America CFO quarterly roundtable report. Honestly I don&#039;t get it... why take FINE research and analysis and ruin it with poorly executed charting?!

An Exception: Before finance and econometrics, I did a lot of public health work. The kinds of charts shown by Jeff Clark -- which remnd me of radial heat maps (pardon the pun) and others ARE intuitive and useful, but only in my view to time-constrained technical, scientific, or field practioners such as physicians. It would be poorly applied in a business setting. I found they were best done with call-outs to the underlying text. Done this way they convey a lot of information quickly, and better, help guide the user to accompanying text without forcing them to digest the entire text.  That newsletter, later taken over by the CDC, received considerable praise from practizing clinicians with little time to wade through text.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon, We spnd a huge amount of time working with non-technical decision makers. The single worse metaphor to convey any degree of complexity is the donut chart. I comment on this only because (a) I used to beat my head against terminal trying to make donut charts work; (b) I have huge respect for the work done at THE ECONOMIST (magazine) RESEARCH UNIT, but for the life of me I can not understand their ADDICTION to donut charts. Another analyst I respect but for their over use of Donut Charts is the Bank of America CFO quarterly roundtable report. Honestly I don&#8217;t get it&#8230; why take FINE research and analysis and ruin it with poorly executed charting?!</p>
<p>An Exception: Before finance and econometrics, I did a lot of public health work. The kinds of charts shown by Jeff Clark &#8212; which remnd me of radial heat maps (pardon the pun) and others ARE intuitive and useful, but only in my view to time-constrained technical, scientific, or field practioners such as physicians. It would be poorly applied in a business setting. I found they were best done with call-outs to the underlying text. Done this way they convey a lot of information quickly, and better, help guide the user to accompanying text without forcing them to digest the entire text.  That newsletter, later taken over by the CDC, received considerable praise from practizing clinicians with little time to wade through text.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Peltier</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/leave-the-donuts-for-the-cops-and-stick-with-the-bars/comment-page-1/#comment-6359</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Peltier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 22:11:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=1063#comment-6359</guid>
		<description>Derek - This might be a good compromise, at least for comparing bars in the same category (color in this case).

Jorge &amp; Tim - Thanks for the link, I want to make sure I give credit where credit is due.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Derek &#8211; This might be a good compromise, at least for comparing bars in the same category (color in this case).</p>
<p>Jorge &#038; Tim &#8211; Thanks for the link, I want to make sure I give credit where credit is due.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Mayes</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/leave-the-donuts-for-the-cops-and-stick-with-the-bars/comment-page-1/#comment-6358</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Mayes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 21:57:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=1063#comment-6358</guid>
		<description>Jon, a little detective work turned up that lovely pie chart at:

http://people.howstuffworks.com/prison4.htm

Perhaps they need a feature on &quot;How Math Works.&quot; :-)

BTW, there&#039;s a really nice column chart on the same page.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon, a little detective work turned up that lovely pie chart at:</p>
<p><a href="http://people.howstuffworks.com/prison4.htm" rel="nofollow">http://people.howstuffworks.com/prison4.htm</a></p>
<p>Perhaps they need a feature on &#8220;How Math Works.&#8221; :-)</p>
<p>BTW, there&#8217;s a really nice column chart on the same page.</p>
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		<title>By: Jorge Camoes</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/leave-the-donuts-for-the-cops-and-stick-with-the-bars/comment-page-1/#comment-6357</link>
		<dc:creator>Jorge Camoes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 20:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=1063#comment-6357</guid>
		<description>&quot;I don’t recall where I found this gem. If anyone recognizes it, please let me know.&quot;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://people.howstuffworks.com/prison4.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://people.howstuffworks.com/prison4.htm&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I don’t recall where I found this gem. If anyone recognizes it, please let me know.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://people.howstuffworks.com/prison4.htm" rel="nofollow">http://people.howstuffworks.com/prison4.htm</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: derek</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/leave-the-donuts-for-the-cops-and-stick-with-the-bars/comment-page-1/#comment-6356</link>
		<dc:creator>derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 20:31:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=1063#comment-6356</guid>
		<description>Jorge, I tried quite hard to persuade Excel to let me put a thin donut on top of a pie, but it was no use. Pies go on top of donuts always, covering them up.  Of course, the pie and the donut ought to be just options in a single chart type: a pie is just a donut with a hole of 0%, a donut is just a multilevel pie with a white or no-color central level.  

Jon, many people say what they need is a graph type that makes the 100% nature of the summed segments clear.  100% stacked bars do that, but suffer from some of the same problems as donuts.  Your Excel panel graphs, as demoed elsewhere, are the ideal compromise: they stack the whole, but they also align the bases of all the parts. 

Or, you could be silly like me and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.branta.demon.co.uk/infographics/100stack.png&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;stack them back to back&lt;/a&gt; :-)

&lt;p style=&quot;text-align: center;&quot;&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200811/100stackbar.png&quot; alt=&quot;Derek&#039;s back-to-back stack&quot;&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jorge, I tried quite hard to persuade Excel to let me put a thin donut on top of a pie, but it was no use. Pies go on top of donuts always, covering them up.  Of course, the pie and the donut ought to be just options in a single chart type: a pie is just a donut with a hole of 0%, a donut is just a multilevel pie with a white or no-color central level.  </p>
<p>Jon, many people say what they need is a graph type that makes the 100% nature of the summed segments clear.  100% stacked bars do that, but suffer from some of the same problems as donuts.  Your Excel panel graphs, as demoed elsewhere, are the ideal compromise: they stack the whole, but they also align the bases of all the parts. </p>
<p>Or, you could be silly like me and <a href="http://www.branta.demon.co.uk/infographics/100stack.png" rel="nofollow">stack them back to back</a> :-)</p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><img src="http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200811/100stackbar.png" alt="Derek's back-to-back stack"/></p>
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		<title>By: Jon Peltier</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/leave-the-donuts-for-the-cops-and-stick-with-the-bars/comment-page-1/#comment-6353</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Peltier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=1063#comment-6353</guid>
		<description>Jorge -

Ha, and I even commented on it. I knew I&#039;d gotten the link from somewhere.

As I said, I don&#039;t think it does anything that a simple pivot chart cannot handle, and a pivot chart doesn&#039;t distort the display by forcing it into a circle.

While we&#039;re on the subject of pies not adding to 100%, how about this chart which compares recidivism rates based on the original crime:

&lt;p style=&quot;text-align: center;&quot;&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200811/prison-10.jpg&quot; alt=&quot;This pie doesn&#039;t add up&quot;&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

I don&#039;t recall where I found this gem. If anyone recognizes it, please let me know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jorge -</p>
<p>Ha, and I even commented on it. I knew I&#8217;d gotten the link from somewhere.</p>
<p>As I said, I don&#8217;t think it does anything that a simple pivot chart cannot handle, and a pivot chart doesn&#8217;t distort the display by forcing it into a circle.</p>
<p>While we&#8217;re on the subject of pies not adding to 100%, how about this chart which compares recidivism rates based on the original crime:</p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><img src="http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200811/prison-10.jpg" alt="This pie doesn't add up"/></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t recall where I found this gem. If anyone recognizes it, please let me know.</p>
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		<title>By: Jorge Camoes</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/leave-the-donuts-for-the-cops-and-stick-with-the-bars/comment-page-1/#comment-6352</link>
		<dc:creator>Jorge Camoes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:12:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=1063#comment-6352</guid>
		<description>I already wrote about your first &lt;a href=&quot;http://charts.jorgecamoes.com/how-many-computer-scientists-does-it-take-to-screw-up-a-pie-chart/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;pie chart example&lt;/a&gt;, and I find it a very, very, stupid idea. Something that breaks the law of a circle meaning 100% is stupid by definition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I already wrote about your first <a href="http://charts.jorgecamoes.com/how-many-computer-scientists-does-it-take-to-screw-up-a-pie-chart/" rel="nofollow">pie chart example</a>, and I find it a very, very, stupid idea. Something that breaks the law of a circle meaning 100% is stupid by definition.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Peltier</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/leave-the-donuts-for-the-cops-and-stick-with-the-bars/comment-page-1/#comment-6349</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Peltier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 17:04:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=1063#comment-6349</guid>
		<description>Jorge -

I remember your chart now. I see what you were trying to do with the outer concentric arcs, but I have to say I think it is still harder to digest the data in this form than in a table. Maybe it&#039;s a lack of familiarity with the thought process that went into it, but it takes too long to move one&#039;s eyes back and forth, and try to internalize what the arcs are trying to communicate.

We shouldn&#039;t stop trying to repurpose old tricks, even poorly performing ones, if we can make them perform new tricks.

I&#039;ve come across a couple of other pie/donut variants lately that may merit full posts at some point, but now you&#039;re making me comment about them :-)

The first pie/donut variant is a new way to display poll results, the visual output of a new computer package that allows users to change categories in their data easily. This is the brainchild of two researchers at the University of Utah, Geoff Draper and Richard Riesenfeld. I don&#039;t have many details, just a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.unews.utah.edu/p/?r=092908-3&quot; title=&quot;Visualizing Election Polls&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;press release&lt;/a&gt;, but it seems like it has all the functionality of pivot tables, without the &quot;nice graphics&quot; of pivot charts.

&lt;p style=&quot;text-align: center;&quot;&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200811/DonutPollResults50.jpg&quot; alt=&quot;Donut poll results&quot;&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

The second pie/donut variant is a sequentially broken down pie chart that becomes, in effect, a radial treemap. Jeff Clark of Neoformix has &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.neoformix.com/2006/MultiLevelPieChart.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;posted some of these&lt;/a&gt;, and I have inserted a couple below.

&lt;p style=&quot;text-align: center;&quot;&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200811/BoingBoingRadialTreemap50.png&quot; alt=&quot;Radial treemap&quot;&gt; &#160; &#160; &lt;img src=&quot;http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200811/the-mother-of-all-1.jpg&quot; alt=&quot;Radial treemap&quot;&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

After doing this work, Jeff discovered that there is nothing new under the sun, or rather, under the SunBurst. The following is an illustration of hard drive usage generated by a program called &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cc.gatech.edu/gvu/ii/sunburst/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Sunburst&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;p style=&quot;text-align: center;&quot;&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200811/SunBurst1a.gif&quot; alt=&quot;SunBurst visualization of hard drive usage&quot;&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jorge -</p>
<p>I remember your chart now. I see what you were trying to do with the outer concentric arcs, but I have to say I think it is still harder to digest the data in this form than in a table. Maybe it&#8217;s a lack of familiarity with the thought process that went into it, but it takes too long to move one&#8217;s eyes back and forth, and try to internalize what the arcs are trying to communicate.</p>
<p>We shouldn&#8217;t stop trying to repurpose old tricks, even poorly performing ones, if we can make them perform new tricks.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve come across a couple of other pie/donut variants lately that may merit full posts at some point, but now you&#8217;re making me comment about them :-)</p>
<p>The first pie/donut variant is a new way to display poll results, the visual output of a new computer package that allows users to change categories in their data easily. This is the brainchild of two researchers at the University of Utah, Geoff Draper and Richard Riesenfeld. I don&#8217;t have many details, just a <a href="http://www.unews.utah.edu/p/?r=092908-3" title="Visualizing Election Polls" rel="nofollow">press release</a>, but it seems like it has all the functionality of pivot tables, without the &#8220;nice graphics&#8221; of pivot charts.</p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><img src="http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200811/DonutPollResults50.jpg" alt="Donut poll results"/></p>
<p>The second pie/donut variant is a sequentially broken down pie chart that becomes, in effect, a radial treemap. Jeff Clark of Neoformix has <a href="http://www.neoformix.com/2006/MultiLevelPieChart.html" rel="nofollow">posted some of these</a>, and I have inserted a couple below.</p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><img src="http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200811/BoingBoingRadialTreemap50.png" alt="Radial treemap"/> &nbsp; &nbsp; <img src="http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200811/the-mother-of-all-1.jpg" alt="Radial treemap"/></p>
<p>After doing this work, Jeff discovered that there is nothing new under the sun, or rather, under the SunBurst. The following is an illustration of hard drive usage generated by a program called <a href="http://www.cc.gatech.edu/gvu/ii/sunburst/" rel="nofollow"> Sunburst</a>.</p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><img src="http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200811/SunBurst1a.gif" alt="SunBurst visualization of hard drive usage"/></p>
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		<title>By: Sandi Mays</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/leave-the-donuts-for-the-cops-and-stick-with-the-bars/comment-page-1/#comment-6348</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandi Mays</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:26:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=1063#comment-6348</guid>
		<description>That was a pretty Captain Obvious question :)  I&#039;ll take the chart on the right.  Ha!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was a pretty Captain Obvious question :)  I&#8217;ll take the chart on the right.  Ha!</p>
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		<title>By: Jorge Camoes</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/leave-the-donuts-for-the-cops-and-stick-with-the-bars/comment-page-1/#comment-6346</link>
		<dc:creator>Jorge Camoes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:38:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=1063#comment-6346</guid>
		<description>Jon, I agree with you, &quot;donut charts are such an awful way to try to present data&quot; if, and only if, you use it to display completely different series (hours / cost). Although this is standard practice (unfortunately), the only (barely) acceptable use of donut charts is to detail the previous series. This avoids some of the perceptual issues because it keeps the arcs aligned across series. 

I&#039;ve tried to exemplify &lt;a href=&quot;http://charts.jorgecamoes.com/how-to-make-better-pie-charts-with-on-demand-details/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;how to create better pie charts&lt;/a&gt;, and that basically means using donuts charts this way.

&lt;p style=&quot;text-align: center;&quot;&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200811/jorgedoughnut66.png&quot; alt=&quot;Donut chart by Jorge&quot;&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon, I agree with you, &#8220;donut charts are such an awful way to try to present data&#8221; if, and only if, you use it to display completely different series (hours / cost). Although this is standard practice (unfortunately), the only (barely) acceptable use of donut charts is to detail the previous series. This avoids some of the perceptual issues because it keeps the arcs aligned across series. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve tried to exemplify <a href="http://charts.jorgecamoes.com/how-to-make-better-pie-charts-with-on-demand-details/" rel="nofollow">how to create better pie charts</a>, and that basically means using donuts charts this way.</p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><img src="http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/wp-content/img200811/jorgedoughnut66.png" alt="Donut chart by Jorge"/></p>
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