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	<title>Comments on: Analysis of Baseball Attendance &#8211; Chart Busters</title>
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	<description>Peltier Tech Excel Charts and Programming Blog</description>
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		<title>By: molly</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/analysis-of-baseball-attendance-chart-busters/comment-page-1/#comment-22384</link>
		<dc:creator>molly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=2429#comment-22384</guid>
		<description>this is not useful</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this is not useful</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Peltier</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/analysis-of-baseball-attendance-chart-busters/comment-page-1/#comment-19199</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Peltier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:58:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=2429#comment-19199</guid>
		<description>Matt -

Excel does not make native 3D XYZ charts. Andy Pope (http://andypope.info) has developed a system that uses a ton of trig to convert X-Y-Z coordinates to a 2D medium with the appearance of 3 dimensions. Sliders let the user change perspective. It&#039;s a good hack

I have seen effective 3D scatter charts; they are dynamic and interactive. I&#039;ve never seen anything meaningful done in Excel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt -</p>
<p>Excel does not make native 3D XYZ charts. Andy Pope (<a href="http://andypope.info" rel="nofollow">http://andypope.info</a>) has developed a system that uses a ton of trig to convert X-Y-Z coordinates to a 2D medium with the appearance of 3 dimensions. Sliders let the user change perspective. It&#8217;s a good hack</p>
<p>I have seen effective 3D scatter charts; they are dynamic and interactive. I&#8217;ve never seen anything meaningful done in Excel.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Pierce</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/analysis-of-baseball-attendance-chart-busters/comment-page-1/#comment-19198</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Pierce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=2429#comment-19198</guid>
		<description>Very interesting analysis, much improved over the original...and it supports what I&#039;ve always heard, Mets, Cubbies and Brewers fans are fanatics and support their teams through thick and thin (all too often thin for them...).

In addition to the factors mentioned (new ballparks, stadium size, etc.), I also immediately thought of:
(1) What impact does the opponent have on attendance? I imagine this week&#039;s games in San Francisco with the Rockies, teams that are neck-and-neck for a playoff position, is much different than the Giants normally see. I also know, regardless of how my Rockies are performing, if someone like the Yankees are in town, attendance is through the roof.

(2) What impact does the team&#039;s position in the playoff race have and would there be a way to see that over time. Again, with my Rockies, I&#039;ll be their attendance in the second half of the season when they started making a run for the playoffs is much better than when they looked dismal earlier in the year.

Just some thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting analysis, much improved over the original&#8230;and it supports what I&#8217;ve always heard, Mets, Cubbies and Brewers fans are fanatics and support their teams through thick and thin (all too often thin for them&#8230;).</p>
<p>In addition to the factors mentioned (new ballparks, stadium size, etc.), I also immediately thought of:<br />
(1) What impact does the opponent have on attendance? I imagine this week&#8217;s games in San Francisco with the Rockies, teams that are neck-and-neck for a playoff position, is much different than the Giants normally see. I also know, regardless of how my Rockies are performing, if someone like the Yankees are in town, attendance is through the roof.</p>
<p>(2) What impact does the team&#8217;s position in the playoff race have and would there be a way to see that over time. Again, with my Rockies, I&#8217;ll be their attendance in the second half of the season when they started making a run for the playoffs is much better than when they looked dismal earlier in the year.</p>
<p>Just some thoughts.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Cloves</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/analysis-of-baseball-attendance-chart-busters/comment-page-1/#comment-19190</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Cloves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=2429#comment-19190</guid>
		<description>Hi jon,

Interesting post, good stuff.

bit of a spurious aside, but I would be interested to hear your views on &#039;3d scatter plots&#039;. do you think they have value?
Excel is perhaps not the best environment for one, but assuming you could quickly output a 3d model, the camera angle of which could be manipulated by the user, would you opt to give them full control to see the data from any angle, or would you rather restrict them to 3 views of the &#039;front&#039;, &#039;top&#039; and &#039;side&#039; of the &#039;box&#039; (ie. 3 seperate xy charts).

would you chose another method entirely to display 3 things which do not share a common scale (unit).

-Matt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi jon,</p>
<p>Interesting post, good stuff.</p>
<p>bit of a spurious aside, but I would be interested to hear your views on &#8216;3d scatter plots&#8217;. do you think they have value?<br />
Excel is perhaps not the best environment for one, but assuming you could quickly output a 3d model, the camera angle of which could be manipulated by the user, would you opt to give them full control to see the data from any angle, or would you rather restrict them to 3 views of the &#8216;front&#8217;, &#8216;top&#8217; and &#8217;side&#8217; of the &#8216;box&#8217; (ie. 3 seperate xy charts).</p>
<p>would you chose another method entirely to display 3 things which do not share a common scale (unit).</p>
<p>-Matt</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Peltier</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/analysis-of-baseball-attendance-chart-busters/comment-page-1/#comment-19177</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Peltier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=2429#comment-19177</guid>
		<description>Matt H - 

I didn&#039;t bother with the residuals because there are many other factors to take into account, and they would affect the residuals in ways I was not prepared to investigate. Rather than use the awkward Toolpak function, determining the residuals involves a relatively straightforward formula, once the regression coefficients are known. But the residuals plot more clearly shows the deviation from the fitted line.

&lt;p align=&quot;center&quot;&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;http://peltiertech.com/images/2009-09/MLB-Attendence-XY1b.png&quot; alt=&quot;Chart Busters Analysis of Major League Baseball Attendance&quot;&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt H &#8211; </p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t bother with the residuals because there are many other factors to take into account, and they would affect the residuals in ways I was not prepared to investigate. Rather than use the awkward Toolpak function, determining the residuals involves a relatively straightforward formula, once the regression coefficients are known. But the residuals plot more clearly shows the deviation from the fitted line.</p>
<p align="center"><img src="http://peltiertech.com/images/2009-09/MLB-Attendence-XY1b.png" alt="Chart Busters Analysis of Major League Baseball Attendance"/></p>
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		<title>By: Jon Peltier</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/analysis-of-baseball-attendance-chart-busters/comment-page-1/#comment-19175</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Peltier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:15:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=2429#comment-19175</guid>
		<description>Prag -

That&#039;s a good point, and something I thought about. The Yankees also have a new stadium, and they&#039;ve had a contending team during the past decade. The Red Sox fall right on the line, but they have a small stadium, and have sold out the last 500+ games in a row.

You would have to look at each season independently, so you could see the effect of a new stadium wearing out, the effect of the previous season&#039;s record, the acquisition of a star player, and other transient effects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prag -</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a good point, and something I thought about. The Yankees also have a new stadium, and they&#8217;ve had a contending team during the past decade. The Red Sox fall right on the line, but they have a small stadium, and have sold out the last 500+ games in a row.</p>
<p>You would have to look at each season independently, so you could see the effect of a new stadium wearing out, the effect of the previous season&#8217;s record, the acquisition of a star player, and other transient effects.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/analysis-of-baseball-attendance-chart-busters/comment-page-1/#comment-19167</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 04:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=2429#comment-19167</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t agree that the derived attendance/win graph is of use.  Isn&#039;t the best fit (slope) of the attendance/win versus wins plot simply the 2nd derivative of the attendance versus wins plot.  It seems to be an unnecessary complication as you indicate in your post.  The bar charts hide this while the scatter plot at least gives you an almost flat line (the 2nd derivative of a straight line is zero).

When comparing two variables to look for a possible correlation, then the scatter plot is the most appropriate form of visualization to choose as you point out.  A case of &quot;Form follows Function&quot;.  (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.visualcomplexity.com/vc/blog/?p=644&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Information Visualization Manifesto&lt;/a&gt;).  

An excellent chart busters example.  The scatter plot is much easier to interpret (and critique) than the bar charts.  I wonder whether the correlation coefficient of 39% for the National league is even statistically significant.  If not, then even drawing the best fit line is a bit of misinformation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t agree that the derived attendance/win graph is of use.  Isn&#8217;t the best fit (slope) of the attendance/win versus wins plot simply the 2nd derivative of the attendance versus wins plot.  It seems to be an unnecessary complication as you indicate in your post.  The bar charts hide this while the scatter plot at least gives you an almost flat line (the 2nd derivative of a straight line is zero).</p>
<p>When comparing two variables to look for a possible correlation, then the scatter plot is the most appropriate form of visualization to choose as you point out.  A case of &#8220;Form follows Function&#8221;.  (<a href="http://www.visualcomplexity.com/vc/blog/?p=644" rel="nofollow">Information Visualization Manifesto</a>).  </p>
<p>An excellent chart busters example.  The scatter plot is much easier to interpret (and critique) than the bar charts.  I wonder whether the correlation coefficient of 39% for the National league is even statistically significant.  If not, then even drawing the best fit line is a bit of misinformation.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Healy</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/analysis-of-baseball-attendance-chart-busters/comment-page-1/#comment-19163</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Healy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 03:47:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=2429#comment-19163</guid>
		<description>Good analysis, I regularly use scatter plots (and fancier plots for high-dimensional data sets) to look for relationships.  One thing I nearly always do as well is plot the residuals (Y value minus regression fit) to check for any pattern in the residuals.  For instance a U-shaped pattern in the residuals suggests either a linearizing transformation or a quadratic fit.  A more complex pattern in the residuals suggests either a higher-order fit or the existence of confounding factors.

The Regression tool in the Excel Data Analysis Toolpack has checkboxes to calculate and plot residuals, so it&#039;s easy to look at them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good analysis, I regularly use scatter plots (and fancier plots for high-dimensional data sets) to look for relationships.  One thing I nearly always do as well is plot the residuals (Y value minus regression fit) to check for any pattern in the residuals.  For instance a U-shaped pattern in the residuals suggests either a linearizing transformation or a quadratic fit.  A more complex pattern in the residuals suggests either a higher-order fit or the existence of confounding factors.</p>
<p>The Regression tool in the Excel Data Analysis Toolpack has checkboxes to calculate and plot residuals, so it&#8217;s easy to look at them.</p>
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		<title>By: Pragmatic Cynic</title>
		<link>http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/analysis-of-baseball-attendance-chart-busters/comment-page-1/#comment-19160</link>
		<dc:creator>Pragmatic Cynic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 01:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/?p=2429#comment-19160</guid>
		<description>Jon,  as baseball fan I love the post.   But is one season enough.  Obviously part of the Mets variation for the norm is the &quot;newness&quot; factor of CitiField.   Likewise, next year my Twins will vary above the norm no matter their wins when Target Field opens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon,  as baseball fan I love the post.   But is one season enough.  Obviously part of the Mets variation for the norm is the &#8220;newness&#8221; factor of CitiField.   Likewise, next year my Twins will vary above the norm no matter their wins when Target Field opens.</p>
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